The past few weeks have seen the good, the bad and the ugly emerge within our profession. Of course it is understandable as change is something that we as humans are not very good at. There are times that we must address change and move forward and the time has come as the walrus says to do just that.
Over more than 25 years we have used the term ‘traditional’ in our name yet we have not worked to enter that nomenclature into common use for our profession. Rather we have had the names; complementary, alternative, holistic, wholistic, integrative and many more names thrust upon us, yet at no time have we stood as a profession and chosen our name.
The need to change was driven home when I commenced to develop a political and media profile for us (my ATMS colleagues) and as I went to meeting and spoke about traditional medicine we were confused with indigenous more often than not, yet when I said natural medicine it became very clear who were and what we did.
Further to this discussions with professionals about the name advised to use the more recognisable term ‘natural medicine’.
For over 25 years the membership has allowed the Directors to guide the organisation, drawing on experience that is second to none in the profession.
The deliberation that took place over this matter was professional, focused and non-emotional and the primary focus was on improvement to our organisation.
There is discussion about costings and scare-mongering about huge increases in fees. This is not true. There will be a minimum fee increase however this increase was passed in November 2009, well before this decision and has nothing to do with the proposed name change. And you may ask what is the increase? Well it is $5. That is not a mistake. Let me repeat this $5.
After the 30th May 2010 THE BIG DAY
No matter what happens we are still members of the one profession. It is not the name or the colours, or the logo it is YOU. Wonderful caring practitioners working at the coalface of your clinic, seeing clients day in and day out. You assist members of your community like no other practitioners. You take the time to care, you focus on client needs and above all you are working within principles that have stood the test of time.
If we do not have the vote to change the name, which I hope we do; but if we do not then we will ask for guidance as to how to proceed from this point. No matter what we will work through this and look forward to exciting times ahead.
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here is some more info
ReplyDeletehttp://atmsnamechange.blogspot.com
Hi Sandi,
ReplyDeleteYou certainly make people whose opinions differ from yours sound irrational.
Will you also change the name of National College of Traditional Medicine? Its website doesn't indicate this will be happening.
Member
You say: "It is not the name or the colours, or the logo it is YOU."
ReplyDeleteWell - I don't want to change, don't need to change.
You say "and as I went to meeting and spoke about traditional medicine we were confused with indigenous more often than not, yet when I said natural medicine it became very clear who were and what we did"
Perhaps it was the manner or words you chose to use that caused the confusion? Aboriginal medicine has been around longer than ATMS - has this confusion always been around? I don't think so.
I agree with Jennifer...look at - http://atmsnamechange.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteAnd what happens to the thousands of receipt books we hold and other logo-marked goods? Is ATMS subsidising the new books? This seems like a government change for change sake!
What a great idea, to have a Presidents's blog. I find I am reading more and more online these days. I look forward to reading things "straight from the horses mouth" as it were.
ReplyDeleteThank you for all the time and effort you and your staff put into the things ATMS does. I've been in practice for 26yrs and its great to have ATMS support in the background, much appreciated.
I can’t believe it has taken till 9 days before the EGM for there to be any kind of forum for debate on this topic to be put out to members. Then again, after the way this crept up on every one, im perhaps not so surprised.
ReplyDeleteIs this re-branding really that necessary? Honestly? The arguments for change are only based on semantics. It reeks of people lost for ideas searching for.....well, just... anything....
Im not afraid of change. I really don’t care too much either way for the name, other than the facts that;
- the word ‘medicine’ aligns us with the one profession we are supposedly an alternative too (or at least are complementary to). Is this a ‘if u cant beat ‘em join ’em’ moment?
- as a remedial massage therapist i have no affiliation with, or affection for, the word ‘medicine’, nor do i really want to. Technically the word fits what we do, which is healing, but the public think of medicine as something they take. Orally or intravenously. Surely ‘Natural Health’, or ‘Natural Therapies’, is closer to the meaning.
- it will require change to every single mention of ATMS on my, and other members, marketing (cards, website, receipts, signs, yellow pages, etc, etc). Plus the cost to the association, of which members will bear the brunt. The cost im not so fussed on, but give me a better reason.
- a complete re-education of the public in an already confused, volatile, and blasé (about alternative health) market, taking years and years. Surely a step backwards after the work done so far. Are you appeasing the media, or the public?
I could go on but wont, however your 2nd last paragraph says it all; it is not the name, it is the practitioners who are the ATMS, regardless of the name. Make EGMs for issues of greater importance than semantics. Make the public associate this profession with what you want it too
That ‘seeking guidance as to how to proceed’ you mention in your last paragraph, should be what is happening NOW. Or is that what resulted in this proposal?
Definition of Traditional Medicine from World Health Organisation
ReplyDeleteThe World Health Organization (WHO) defines traditional medicine as:
"the health practices, approaches, knowledge and beliefs incorporating plant, animal and mineral-based medicines, spiritual therapies, manual techniques and exercises, applied singularly or in combination to treat, diagnose and prevent illnesses or maintain well-being."
Traditional medicine is the sum total of knowledge, skills and practices based on the theories, beliefs and experiences indigenous to different cultures that are used to maintain health, as well as to prevent, diagnose, improve or treat physical and mental illnesses.
Traditional medicine that has been adopted by other populations (outside its indigenous culture) is often termed alternative or complementary medicine.
Herbal medicines include herbs, herbal materials, herbal preparations, and finished herbal products that contain parts of plants or other plant materials as active ingredients.
Ref: click here to read the World Health Organisation traditional medicine fact sheet:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs134/en/index.html
Great to see ATMS embracing social media trends with a blog! Looking forward to more posts.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely against this move. I've been through more than one institutional name change, the biggest being the 1983 change from Rural Bank of NSW to State Bank of NSW. It's an extraordinary nightmare and costs an absolute bomb for the institution. Everything has to be changed, and those of us with business cards and other stationery with ATMS references all have to share in the costs too. It diverts precious staff resources, but it makes a great profit for printers, signwriters etc.
ReplyDeleteI can see some minor benefit for having "Natural Medicine" in the association title, but as natural therapists we're in a minority group. It's taken so many years to build up awareness of the ATMS brand. Change the name now, and it'll take another decade to get back to where we are now. Awareness of ATMS among the general public is pretty small as it is.
Meanwhile, maybe I'm missing something, but I've not seen any publicity about the Federal (feral) government's health policy and the lack of natural therapist input into this. Why are we not out there as a group, getting into local papers and media with comment, suggestions, etc. Or are we so busy with our practices that we can't do this? I scan all the major papers online, but never see anything from any of our professional associations. No wonder we rarely seem to get a mention. Or have I really missed something?
Shocked. All for positive change but feel this is not a good one as a remedial massage therapist. PLEASE keep our original name.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePersonally I couldn't give a bugger about a name change. However, what does concern me is that the El Presidente gets to put her personal blog link on the front page of the member's webs site. I would question the ethics of this. And if you can't see the problem with this then you really don't get it -do you!
ReplyDeleteFancy conducting a shit-fight right on the front page of the Association's public face. You really do need to get your act together. The very least you can do is make a members only forum for this type of discussion.
Lot of negatives here, tend to agree that a closed forum would be a better place to air the laundry.
ReplyDeleteDon't mind a name change "Australian Tradition Medicine Society (ATMS)" says no more or no less about Massage Therapy than "Natural Medicine Australia (NMA)".
Though I would prefer a light change to help differentiate us from a pharmaceutical company maybe: "Natural Medicine Practitioners Australia (NMPA)".
Seeing as we seem to be experimenting with member consultation, how about some feedback as to the process of co-regulation. Be brave, open the doors, let some fresh air in.
Yes, a members area and electronic communication strategy would be one tangible way of entering the energy of the 21st century. President gets a blog link, but hey, what about us members?? The voting info was only recently put on the website, the whole process has been unbusinesslike. If the Directors dont like the existing name why dont they resign? We could all write passionate letters suggesting that and hope they trust in their members guidance.
ReplyDeleteTalk about "egg on face'.
ReplyDeleteWhat a blatant abuse of position for our President to use the ATMS website at this point in time to paste a second, pale, weak argumet to change the name of our Society.
It reeks of a power play to me.
I agree with Toni, what's wrong with the W.H.O. definition of TM. Maybe this description or similar could be on some of our print material to help those who are confused.
From a business and customer relations point of view I think an extremely successful brand name should not be changed unless there are powerful compelling reasons, and I haven't heard any.
Surely there are more important items on the agenda for our Directors.
I do think the debate is healthy and it does remind me of the wonderful Society of members to which I belong.
Malcolm Fowler Herbalist ATMS9214
I agree that the "Natural Medicine Practioners Australia" would be a better choice and less likely to confuse the public. I am willing to change my stationary if it benefits the industry and creates better public awareness of complementry therapies in the long term. However the name must reflect who we are as a body otherwise it is counterintuitive.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with Sandy on this, ATMS never seemed an appropriate name, certainly natural medicine covers the therapies better, with a closer meaning to what modern society associates with what we do, it doesn't matter whether you are a Naturopath or Massage Therapist (physical medicine), it is covered by the name natural medicine. Over the past couple of decades traditional medicine has become more closely aligned with the traditional owners ( indigenous people) of the medicine, whereas natural medicine is a stand alone name. Lifestyle Medicine is coming of age and we will be better poised to take advantage of a medicine Naturopaths developed, namely preventive medicine.
ReplyDeleteWhat a waste of time, and money to change a name that should already be well known.
ReplyDeleteIf our association has been doing as much work in government and public arenas as it proclaims then doesnt everyone already know what we do?
As a remedial massage therapist I don't see any benefit to me in this proposal and dont believe that the word 'medicine' aptly describes my practice.
All I can see is an expense to change stationery, web contacts etc. Let alone the cost to the environment to reproduce new and destroy the old.
I firmly disagree with this change and consider it irrelevant and a waste of resouces in holding a general meeting to vote.
Don't let her do it!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteA name change for the ATMS is not needed in my opinion (as a second generation ATMS member). The speed & confusion in which the name change proposal has been presented is nothing but unprofessional, unbusinesslike & unethical. Well done to Raymond Khoury for being brave & concerned enough to make the statement for the "NO" vote. Anne
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnd the President says the vocal minority should not make the rules, there are over 11,000 members and 18 directors, most of whom we havent heard a peep from, so isn't she contradicting herself somewhat?
ReplyDeleteAnd the last two days with fantastic practitioners, is that a campaign trail or what?
As far as the indigneous traditional confusion goes, it just demonstates how little cultural awareness is available to whoever wrote that statement. Australian Aboriginal people dont use the word traditional, they say 'bush medicine' or 'culture' and a healer is called by the specific title in that language group eg maban man in the north west Australia.
John, we all come from some tradition or other, eg a herbalist might use herbs sourced from one or a mix of European, Native American, Chinese, South American or other cultures, and belongs to to a long standing tradition with knowledge passed down. The word tradition means handing down or passing on, it does not imply static knowledges or practices, as these are adapted, refined, applied and adjusted continuously.
We were handed down the name ATMS from the original founders, and I dont see how a name change would make that much difference. I describe myself by my modality practiced, so natural medicine doesnt make it any clearer what I do.
If a massage therapist called themselves a natural medicine practitioner, I dont think they would get much business. In the big picture natural medicine might suit someone, somewhere, maybe the marketing company who we will be paying, or any directors who have fingers in the pie. For the rest of us, I am not convinced.
If the directors want advice after the meeting, why didnt they consult with us earlier about a name change. I am not easily flattered by that kind of statement. Nothing adds up, why so secretive?
Bluey,
ReplyDeleteAll of the philosophical stuff you have mentioned are important to us, where herbs come from, what the traditional uses were/are, although I don't feel they are anywhere near as important as whether they actually work in high quality scientific trials, I certainly wont use them if they don't perform, but the reasons I agree with Sandy on this are to do with our identity. We know what we do but as Sandi said, at Government meetings or other meeting outside of ATMS, we struggle for an identity because of our name. If the name ATMS ever covered Massage therapists then a name that includes the term natural should equally cover it, massage is after all a core modality of Naturopathy, it is the physical medicine, recognised as such in the new lifestyle medicine post graduate courses at SCU and Monash, the same as exercise is physical medicine. At the beginning Naturopathy offered the best preventative approach to illness by far, and natural preventative treatments are what is required now with <70% of all visits to GP's being caused by the patients own diet or lifestyle. Traditional is a vague term at best, Natural is self explanatory to a much larger degree because it is used more throughout the world to describe our treatments and medicines.
John Bobbin BNat
That is a very condescending attitude towards Massage / Manual Therapists.
ReplyDelete" If the name ATMS ever covered Massage therapists then a name that includes the term natural should equally cover it, massage is after all a core modality of Naturopathy"
Ask any lay person in the street for an interpretation of "physical medicine" I doubt you will find few if any that equate it to immediately or directly to massage therapy.
I know your comments weren't intended that way, but it highlights a key issue with the name, proposed and current. In that it really does not identify a majority group within the organisation.
Hi John, thanks for your comments but please take a look at the WHO (World Health Organisation) defn of traditional medicine
ReplyDeleteThe World Health Organization (WHO) defines traditional medicine as:
"the health practices, approaches, knowledge and beliefs incorporating plant, animal and mineral-based medicines, spiritual therapies, manual techniques and exercises, applied singularly or in combination to treat, diagnose and prevent illnesses or maintain well-being."
Further reference, given that several ATMS directors are employed by Endeavour College
Endeavour College of Natural Health - Mission
'We are dynamic and innovative whilst maintaining traditional wisdom in a personalised learning environment. We endeavour to create an empowering experience achieving excellence in teaching and learning and connecting with community. Natural Health is steeped in traditional wisdom and Endeavour College of Natural Health works with its stakeholders to create a learning experience that promotes this traditional wisdom as inherent in all our teachings.
ref: http://www.endeavour.edu.au/about/
And more:
'Endeavour College of Natural Health - Core Values'
Behaviour We value responsible and ethical behaviour, demonstrated by our openness, honesty, respect and integrity in all of our dealings.
Not sure how the Endeavour-related Directors demonstrated openness, honesty, responsibility and ethical behaviour in the name change proposal.
Lets walk the talk,and focus on what is wrong with this entire name change issue, the name change is only a symptom of the unskillfull mis-management of the entire process, if it wasnt a name change, it would be some other heist. The Members need to have a voice and say no to being co-erced or manipulated into some decision that the Directors have not adequately communicated to the members.
Your comment about identity - is that based on Sandi's comment, what research has been done and how? If we are going to be scientific, then go the whole hog and back up statements with hard evidence.
And one thing more - then why not have the name
ReplyDeleteAustralian Natural Medicine Society?
Australian Complementary Medicine Society?
The 'real' motive for this change will become clear, and its just a matter of waiting to see what the Directors involved are up to. It isnt about the name change, its about paving the way for a change of company structure, purpose or intent, or something like that. You bet!
THE VOCAL MINORITY SHOULD NOT MAKE THE RULES?
ReplyDeleteLetter received by a member after persistently asking for info relating to the name change.
"At the request of the ATMS President, please find below the relevant sections of the ATMS Board Minutes relating to the name change".
“MINUTES OF THE ATMS EXECUTIVE BOARD MEETING
HELD ON 19 MARCH 2010 AT THE HOLIDAY INN HOTEL SYDNEY AIRPORT,
PRESENT: Sandi Rogers (Chair), Maggie Sands, David Stelfox, Peter Berryman, Leon Cowen, Stephen Eddey, Peter Farnsworth, Tibby Horvath, Allan Hudson, Teresa Mitchell-Paterson, Kevin Montgomery, Bill Pearson, Sandra Sebelis, Matthew Smith, Kevin Watkins.
APOLOGIES: Sandra Grace, Sandra Russo, Dennis Stewart.
IN ATTENDANCE: Matthew Boylan (Company Secretary & Minutes).
17. Constitution Revision
ATMS Name Change
Resolved that subject to legal checks, the name of Australian Traditional-Medicine Society be changed to “Natural Medicine Australia”. Moved Sandi Rogers Seconded Stephen Eddey. All in favour. Carried
Resolved to accept the proposal by Chalk and Cheese Design to act as consultants with the rebranding of ATMS. Moved Maggie Sands Seconded Bill Pearson All in favour. Carried"
Yours sincerely
Matthew Boylan
Company Secretary
ATMS
Hi Bluey,
ReplyDelete"please take a look at the WHO (World Health Organisation) defn of traditional medicine " I couldn't agree more about the definition of the name being adequate, it covers everything well but I think, and I haven't seen any research to see which name is recognised best by street people, that natural medicine is a more modern description of what we do, and whoever wrote the comment about patronising, your correct I did not even give it a thought that it might be taken in that manner.I registered my business as "John Bobbin Natural Medicine" on 22/1/92 because I thought natural medicine was a better description and I do a lot of remedial massage as well, my liking for this term came about because of naturopaths attempting to alleviate pain, suffering and prevention by natural methods. One thing that has certainly been highlighted here is the need for much greater discussion on this topic, this vote should be stalled until adequate discussion has taken place because of the obvious dissension, majority should be accepted.I would hate to think the conspiracy theory was correct, although I must admit the lack of leadership in trying to gain registration has made me wonder sometimes, we could have been part of allied health by now and making a lot more money because of the obesogenic climate and of course greater acceptance by GP's.Regardless I still like the name natural.
Cheers John Bobbin BNat
Hi John, I wholeheartedly agree with you about focusing on registration, and working together would be the way to go. I am not sure that the Directors are working with members let alone other parties. Today I was informed by the ATMS Secretary that they also have the constitution under review and it has gone to a solicitor. So the name change is probably the tip of the iceberg. I have only been privy to information because I have persistently asked because I cant attend the EGM. I think the fate of ATMS is already signed, sealed and delivered, the marketing company is chosen, the Newspaper will have Bill Pearson and Merry Pearson as editors, possibly receiving remuneration, advertisers paying for space, the ATMS solicitor has the constitution checking it over, all that's needed is a change to profit making company status and its all over except for the $2 million in the ATMS bank. More business and less risk for the various stakeholders etc etc. And if all goes belly up each member's liability is limited to $20 each.
ReplyDeleteWell, one of the problems with this whole issue is that the members were not being given any opportunity to debate this. Whether you're for or against this name change, implementing something like this without advising members is sure to get their backs up. Furthermore, the initial notification gave no way for members who disagreed to have their vote count for anything, unless they were prepared to travel to Parramatta at short notice.
ReplyDeleteThere used to be a forum on the website for members to discuss issues like this. Sandi's Blog has shown the obvious need that we have for this sort of service. Unfortunately the last forum was closed without any notice. All I heard unofficially was that it was due to 'in-fighting.' And now here we are doing it in public. At least the last forum was only visible to members.
I've already sent in my proxy voting form with Raymond Khoury as my proxy. Yes, I've voted against the name change because the existing name describes what we do, has been around for a long time, the cost for the name change would be very high for the Society and members, and the proposed new name, in my opinion, sounds like a drug company. Another and important reason I have voted against the name change is because there was no warning or consultation with members prior to the voting forms being sent out. Was there any mention of the matter in the ATMS journal? If there was I certainly didn't see it.
ReplyDeleteI think the founding members of ATMS chose a name that best describes what we all do. They would have put a lot of thought in to it at the time. To my way of thinking Australian Traditional Medicine Society embraces all forms of natural therapies and it sounds exactly like what it is - a society for natural therapists practicing traditional medicine - therapies born our of tradition.
I too think this discussion should be in a members only forum. This is a private matter for members and should not be visible to the public - very unprofessional.
It's unfortunate that more members are not interested or motivated enough to even bother voting on such an issue. I guess this means that the "vocal minority" might be the only ones who are worth listening to!
ReplyDeleteThe voting majority makes the rules.
ReplyDeleteIf 80 or 90% of the members decide not to vote then possibly they don't have strong views either way. I'm becoming more confused as the comments about structure changes emerge, however I no longer have confidence in our President and am suspicious of the Directors.
How did this situation occur?
Secrecy and hidden agendas?
Could I suggest that the minutes of all Directors meetings be available on line so that we can make properly informed opinions and choices about significant changes to our Society.
Hi Sandi,
ReplyDeleteI understand that frustration often influences the way people communicate, but you seem to attack like a pit bull on steroids when anyone disagrees with you,it's almost like an attempt to censure free democratic speech, your comments about lies, deceit,innuendo and comments about registration made by people "that don't know what they are talking, were certainly not helpful and hit a nerve". I have watched over the years how ATMS responded to calls for registration by different people, even recently
http://www.massageschool.com.au/images/Government%20Registration.pdf
and
http://www.theage.com.au/national/laws-only-way-to-stop-pharmyard-quacks-20080712-3e70.html
This really does not look like trying to register complementary medicine practitioners to me.
Knowledge plus evidence equals proof, I have never trusted faith.
John Bobbin BNat
Sandy - I am unable to attend this momentous meeting but would love to hear everything discussed there. I am sure I am not alone. Could we possibly arrange this as a WEBCAST or SKYPE broadcast so that all interested members can be involved?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAGAINST THE ATMS NAME CHANGE - Go Raymond and other Directors who may have been muted.
ReplyDeleteNow is not the time to go changing the ATMS brand and logo.
There are those who have worked hard over the many years to establish the name of the ATMS and associate its branding as a reputable leader in the healthcare industry and the political arena.
Traditional-Medicine encapsulates the principles and precepts of what this industry is about. Its modalities are traditional (conventional, customary and established belief systems) handed down and continued on from one generation to the next from all over the world.
The word “traditional” affords an association and sense of protection and preservation and not something that can be changed by simply a whim of scientific scrutiny, modern expression, definition and perception.
The word “traditional” carries with it a sense of time and history that implies preserved evolution into modern times and beyond.
Natural Medicine Australia as defined by S. Rogers does not encompass the definition of the collective modalities that contribute to the alternate healthcare paradigm.
If anything the word “natural” creates a bias
and a vulnerability to further pharmacological and scientific scrutiny that would erode the establishment of the traditional framework that has taken years (centuries) to build.
The term “natural” medicine can easily be tarnished by modern definitions and perceptions—what is “natural medicine”, by definition in our modalities, can be totally different to what “natural medicine” means for orthodox mainstream medicine. We all know that to be true and a constant challenge and threat to this industry.
The argument is used that “traditional medicine” does not describe the more modern therapies, treatment tools and diagnostic aids regularly used by many practitioners (S. Rogers).
Well I would argue that the term “natural medicine” does not reflect that definition either.
In the argument for the name change by S. Rogers she states: “’natural medicine’ may be defined as the treatment and prevention of disease and the preservation of health, based on the principle that the therapies used support and enhance each individuals innate and natural ability to self heal”.
Where are the treatment tools and diagnostic aids in that definition?
Whereas I believe that “traditional medicine” leaves the door way open for the continuation and introduction of treatment tools and diagnostic aids.
The industry has been doing this for years and has no problems in implementing developments in that area i.e biofeedback machines, iridology cameras, etc.
Hullo,
ReplyDeleteI live some distance from Sydney and would appreciate some feedback on todays meeting please.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAgainst the Name Change and Totally For Increasing the Credibility of Naturopaths and Other Well-Qualifed Natural Therapists and Massage Therapists - SOMETHING A PUBLIC FORUM DOES LITTLE TO ADVANCE!
ReplyDeleteHow unprofessional! The ATMS should remove this forum from the public eye immediately and provide private login details to all members - something that is terribly simple to do these days and I am shocked it has not happened. Would you ever see something like this on the AMA site or the AVA site, the Australian Chiropractic Association site or similar - Absolutely NOT!